Model b and thermobaker

[lockheedt33]

I'm looking at buying a very nice model B for a good price and was wondering if a thermobaker would work in it's thermowell? Otherwise I may keep looking for a C model to have the option.

Thanks for the info.
Mike

[Joe Pieweed]

Mike:

Resistance is futile, you will "B" assimilated, so might as well give up on the C.

That aside, a thermobaker is usable for lots of things in the B's thermowell, but using it for <u>retained heat</u> baking of pies etc is not as "hands off" as it would be in the C. The C is designed for the thermobaker in that it is much more thermally efficient (the C does not have the rear damper flapper that the B has).

I say this after years of owning a B and using the thermobaker. I really love many things about the B, and wish the thermobaker/well combo worked better. Maybe someday I will substitute an early BZ, which combines the look of a B with the improved mechanicals of a C.

Hope this helps.

Joe P.

[lowracer]

The model C is the only proper Chambers range. All others can only aspire to be like the C.

[RobbiQuest]

Joe, this is a timely topic as I've been thinking of posting a query on it: why do you say that the B damper prohibits CWTGO ?? When the gas shuts off on my stove, the damper closes up tight as a drum. It seems to me to have the same efficiency as the C if not more so since the C has a vent hole that never closes. What am I missing?

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ November 10, 2006 11:45 AM: Message edited by: RobbiQuest ]</font>

[Joe Pieweed]

Hey RQ:

Good question. Now, before I launch into this treatise, I should own up to the fact that I have never baked a pie in the BZ/C T-Well. However, I have done so many times in the B T-Well, and have found that I cannot simply use the C's CWTGTO instructions and have the pie bake properly. With my B, I have always had to turn the gas back on in order for a pie to brown properly.

What I believe is going on (I'm no scientist, but I've sat next to one on the bus ), is that if one looks at a B T-Well, consider the percentage of space that the flapper occupies, compared to the percentage of space a damper flapper occupies in the oven. It's quite a big difference. Then consider how the flapper is uninsulated, and transfers lots of heat compared to the T-Well's insulated walls. Also, the damper is located high up in the T-Well, and since heat goes up, the bubble of heat is always trying to escape around the seal of the damper flapper.

Now look at the C/BZ T-Well. There is no damper flap at all. Rather, the exhausted heat is forced by the hottest rising gas to escape down and below, not above, the cooking vessel, by means of the bottom edge of the insulated T-Well. So, when the gas is turned off, the bubble of hot air has nowhere to go. For me, this all ads up to the BZ/C T-Well design being much more thermally efficient.

Now, with all that said, I do realize that the T-Well is fundemantally different from the oven in that CWTGTO in the T-Well is a, um, misnomer. The proper functioning of the T-Well is dependant on the T-Well pilot, which stays lit when the gas is turned off. In the oven, there is no pilot operating when the gas is turned off. They could have used a standing pilot just like the T-Well, but I believe it was unessasary to do so considering the thermal mass of the oven's cast iron baffle, the placement of the damper lower in the oven, and the larger percentage of the oven's space compared to the flapper.

So, because of the standing pilot, T-Wells, damper or no, seem designed to always generate heat when the gas is turned off, which probably makes the thermal inefficiency of the B's flapper less critical. However, I still believe that the design change of the BZ/C T-Well and the appearance of the T-Baker reflect an improved thermal efficiency.

Well, that was fun. Please, my distinguished colleagues, I am open to having my thesis examined and argued against.

Regards,

Joe P.

[berlyn]

[img]wink.gif[/img] Just my 2 cents..........

Remember the T-well is not the only feature of CWTGTO.
The oven can be used to CWTGTO.
In my original B model Idle Hour Cookbook, many of the pie/cake/bread/pudding/custard recipes are styled to be baked in the oven WTGTO. There is a chart for "temperature & retained-heat" for pastry baking to guide you. I don't know if the 2nd edition (for BZ & C models) Idle Hour Cookbook has this. Being that the T-baker came out with the later models.
I'm just not a baker or pastry person, so it's not a feature that's important to me. Hence, why I'm on the skinny side. I don't even care for ice cream!! My Dad says I'm not normal!! I'm just not much on sweets and treats.

Just wanting everyone to know the oven can be used to bake WTGTO. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Let us know if you have tried the oven using this feature. Cause I more than likely won't

Berlyn

[Joe Pieweed]

Oh, yes, absolutely: I use the the B's oven all the time WTGTO, and it does a very good job with pies.

And I use the B's T-Well for many things WTGTO, but not with the T-Baker for pies.

What about the rest of youse? Anyone else have a really great experience with the B's T-Well and Thermobaker, pie-wise?

Peace,

Joe P.

[pmisaber]

Two questions.

First, RQ, am I to understand that you are now cooking on Elvia? If so, congratulations are in order!

Second, for Joe, are you sure that the thermowell on the BZ is the same as the C? I have brought this up before and even posted a picture on an earlier thread pertaining to the BZ. Both of my BZ thermowells have flaps that cover a venting port located high on the back of the thermowell. At least on my stoves, the thermowell looks like a typical model B set-up and the flaps close when one turns the valve that supplies them off. I know that you were restoring a BZ too and wondered whether the thermowell design might be different on your stove. It would be interesting if there were differences between model BZ stoves with respect to thermowell design.

[chipperhiker]

Well there's a porcelain-topped BZ on ebay right now. It's got a good pic of the thermowell, and there is definitely a flap present that I don't have in any of my C stoves' thermowells.

Ebay auction # 140051640586

Funny. I thought the BZ was "a Model C in B clothing." I guess that's not quite true.

Until you just mentioned it, I didn't think they came with porcelain tops, either, and then I saw this one for sale! It's also a lowback.

-Jenn

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ November 13, 2006 08:43 PM: Message edited by: chipperhiker ]</font>

[pmisaber]

Jenn,

Thank you for answering that question. It has been driving me crazy for a long time (some would say that the question is a feeble excuse and cannot account for my mental state). It seems kind of important for folks to realize, as they are deciding which model Chambers stove suits them, that the thermowell on model B and model BZ stoves are probably identical. The thermowell on the C represents a distinctly new design. Todd once pointed out that Chambers advertised the thermobaker as a cooking tool that would only work in the model C. Recipes for the thermobaker may not work properly in the model BZ, at least not without some experimentation.